Learning Portuguese, Losing English.
I arrived in Brazil just over 18 months ago and during that time there have been some major challenges. Finding a job, getting married, obtaining my visa, finding an apartment and finding some friends! But the biggest challenge has been learning the Portuguese and dealing with communication difficulties.
I’m not only talking about the obvious issues of struggling to understand the locals and struggling to make myself understood. There are other things that I have also found difficult/testing. I am always being asked “So, how is your Portuguese?” – I honestly don’t know how to respond to this anymore! Even worse is the performing monkey routine: “This is Tom. Yes, he speaks Portuguese! Go on Tom, say something in Portuguese for them!” – I realise, of course, that all these issues would go away if I just improved my Portuguese!
And it is slowly improving. I mean, the pace is glacial, but nevertheless I’m getting better and becoming more confident. But now I find there is a new problem emerging.
I no longer sound like English is my first language! Who would have thought it? I have some friends visiting from home right now (hence the lack of posts for the last few days) and they have mentioned it several times. It’s tempting to think that as each new Portuguese word or phrase has squeezed into my brain, it displaced an English equivalent. But in fact I think it is far more likely that I have just picked up bad habits from speaking English with non-native speakers – another great reason to stick to Portuguese!
So, to serve as warning for English speakers and a watch-list for people learning English, I will list the worst non-native crimes that I’ve noticed. I commit some of these regularly, perhaps the others are just waiting in store:
- Confusing “this” and “that”: Remember when those cool new buses arrived in Rio? One rolled past when I was walking with my wife and I remarked “Ah, I love these buses”. These buses. Not those buses. Seriously, I found it rather sweet at first when I heard Brazilians make this mistake, but now I’m doing it! Sometimes I actually have to try a sentence both ways (using “this” and then “that”) to work out which one sounds best. Scary…
I love these buses...
- Using “polemic” instead of “controversial”: Luckily this one still sounds very jarring to me. Of course “polemic” is a perfectly good word in English, but usually it is used as a noun. When an adjective is required we would generally use the word “controversial” instead.
- Talking about “having” a language: This one is a bit of a mystery – why do I keep saying this? In Portuguese we use the verb “falar” (to speak), not “ter” (to have), when referring to languages. And yet I am constantly saying (in English) things like “Wow, she has great Portuguese…”. I suspect that I have subconsciously adapted my English so that, in my mind at least, it is easier to understand. Not a good idea.
- Using “until” instead of “by”: I can’t believe I will ever make this mistake but it is one of the most common I hear in Brazilians who speak otherwise excellent English. In Portuguese the word “até” can be used in several contexts – it serves as “until” in the phrase “It won’t be done until Friday” and also serves as “by” in the phrase “It has to be done by Friday”. You have permission to punch me if you ever hear me say “It has to be done until Friday”!
- Other weird turns of phrase: “If you have doubts just let me know…” (Normal: If you’ve got any questions just let me know…), “They were mocking me…” (Normal: They were making fun of me…), “I will be having a party this weekend.” (Normal: I’m having a party this weekend.)
OK, I’m going to be stopping there because I think I will have been making some mistakes in these points above. I have some doubts and I don’t want you guys to be mocking me…
Ho ho, just my little joke. But seriously, if you are considering a move to Brazil, please get going with some Portuguese lessons – it will make a huge difference to your quality of life. And when you get here, don’t get sucked in to speaking Pidgin English with the locals.
http://www.michelthomas.com/learn-portuguese.php
Very effective.
Ah cool, thanks for that – I remember trying this guy for Spanish a few years back and it was really good. If only he did one for relearning English! ;)
Man, this is awesome!
Don’t forget that even your slipping English will be a zillion times better than that of the average Englishman (myself included! I blame a shite education system).
The one to watch out for (which my brother does sometimes, having now lived in Spain for…well, years) is mixing up ‘you’re’ and ‘your’…. it’s so easy to do!!!
Hey Andres, thanks for that :)
The scary part is that I don’t even notice the mistakes anymore and usually there isn’t anyone to pick me up on them. I hate the “your / you’re” one, but it does slip out sometimes when I’m typing quickly. Ick!
I say “if you have doubts…” ALL THE TIME to my students – bad English teacher! Bad!
Ha ha! It’s infectious! :D
Concerning ” do you have doubts” could it be that when conversing with an non-native speaker you don’t want to miss an opportunity to dispell misunderstandings: did he/she comprehend the lesson, does he/she realize the meeting will be held at point A – starting 7:30 – , etc.
So, when asking, you end up using doubt instead of question just to be on the safe side. And you don’t even notice that you’re doing it.
I should dispel a L from dispell, lol.
Don’t quite see the problem with “these” and “those” in your bus example – I think it just depends how close they are!
But I did remember a song called “a little bit of this and a litte bit of that” and found it here
(from one of the first people who taught you to speak English!)
Hmmm, maybe that was a bad example! Very happy to have a false positive when it comes to making mistakes. And before long I’ll be back amongst the natives, so hopefully that will be a good opportunity to make some improvements :) x
Yeah, tell me about it.
I find the worse ones to be the Portuguese influenced phrases that are translated into English. They sound so goofy.
I find lately that I’ve forced myself to think in Portuguese, so when speaking in English there is sometimes a delay. This also happens in my Portuguese, because my mind is having trouble balancing the two. Obviously for very complex statements or thoughts I think in English, as well as when I write (in English.)
The mind does weird things, doesn’t it? One day you’ll get there! Don’t be afraid to talk and make mistakes because that is the only way you will gain fluency!!
Thanks Alex. As you say, confidence plays a big part in the learning process and a lack of it has, at times, really hampered me. But learning not to worry too much about making mistakes and looking foolish is a valuable life-skill that I have been developing :)
Oh god, it’s terrible, the one I do all the time is “Do you need _____?” “No, I have.” (omitting the direct object). My family has a field day with me over skype.
Ha ha! It’s terrible isn’t it? I’m sure when I go back to London people will compliment me on my English and ask what part of Hungary/Ecuador/Outer Mongolia I’m from!
“Having a language” actually makes sense in Portuguese (“Ela tem um ingles excelente”). I guess the implied meaning is “having language skills” or “having a command of the language”. I think it’s just another bad translation.
Hi Andrew, thanks for dropping by.
It does make sense in Portuguese? Great news! That means I can blame the pollution of my previously perfect (naturellement) English on the Brazilians… ;)
Thanks for the blog! Being in the almost opposite situation from you (Brazilian living in the UK), I enjoy reading your posts to catch up on things that I miss from Brazil and, at the same time, see it from a different perspective than most Brazilians.
Ah, thanks Andrew (that’s not a very Brazilian sounding name you have there, but then who am I to talk?!).
On behalf of my country I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for the weather and the prices – I hope the architecture, beer and Thai restaurants make up for it! :)
Yes, the weather could do with some improvement. Enjoy an extra share of sunshine on my behalf! In all fairness, the snow this weekend was a very pretty sight from behind the double-glazed windows of my heated flat. As for prices, Sao Paulo seems to be on par with London. It’s just that they are expensive (or cheap) for different things.
The English sounding name in Brazil is a slightly
boringlonger story for another day but now I’m off to Masala Zone for a nice curry for lunch… :)Masala Zone! Que inveja!
Have you ever heard Brazilians calling their toes… fingers ? Ha !
Not to worry, Portuguese is quite reasonably “learnable”.
Gee, English native speakers have a good laugh reading my blog. I don’t know anything anymore. Once I mentioned: “… take a shower”. And an English co-worker said it should be “have a shower”, because I wouldn’t be taking the shower with me. This was many years ago and I’ve never forgotten this episode . Two days ago I mentioned to another English co-worker about a pain in my back. She advised me “to take a bath”. Ahn ? Can I take a bath but not a shower ?
The same in Dutch, zillions of examples. I have fallen from the bike and I’ve gotten a “mancha roxa” (blue spot) in my leg. In Dutch you have to say “a blue place” (not “spot”). They do not say “in front of the computer” but.. yeah, the Dutch say they sit “behind the computer”. Shocking ! They say the intestins are “the stomach”. AHN ? The Dutch prepositions are a mess as well: they have more prep. than in other languages and some are untranslatable – you have to “feel” the meaning of them. It makes sense only for those born here, not for the rest of the world !
Learning another language = learning another logic !
Ha ha! I love the toes mistake. Foot fingers! :D
I’m surprised to hear the have/take a shower/bath thing. I have always said “have” for both and I thought the “taking” a shower/bath was an American thing.
I’m sure this ‘feeling’ another language is a big part of the learning process. Developing an instinct for the logic (or illogicality) of a language is for the professionals – I’m getting there!
Ana – “Take a shower” is American English. Not wrong, just different. (Tom might disagree with me there ;-) ) If you were in the United States, “have a shower” sounds funny and we’d probably tell you to “take” one instead!
Ha ha, I don’t mind. As long as people do one or the other (have or take a shower/bath) then they can sit next to me on the bus! :)
I believe you are truly absorbing the language when you 1) dream in the new language and 2) bring those remnants home with you.
After living and teaching in S. Korea, I came home to find that I had difficulty ordering a beer _”Beers two give me”_ came out of my mouth. Perplexed, I needed to break it down, and figure out what was the correct statement. I was shocked then, but it is a treasure now.
You’ll keep learning fun new things, and when they pop up back in your native home, they’ll be a sweet remembrance of this great experience you’ve had in Brazil. I’m stuck between typing it with a “z” or an “s”- it just looks funny with a “z”!
keep posting, always nice to read fresh perspectives on language and travel.
Julie
Thanks Julie – what a nice comment! :)
Nice to know it’s not just me. I have also noticed my spelling deteriorating. As Portuguese doesn’t have so many double letters, I often find myself omiting leters or even worse, overcompensatting! ;)
I can’t imagine what it would be like if I ever did leave Brazil, but I’m sure I’d look back on these years as some of the most special of my life.
Hi, there!
I also find myself making too many mistakes.. not that I speak a perfect English, but right after I say it, I realize I said it wrong.. and I keep doing it over again. So silly. Not to mention that I have to think what Push and Pull means, once puxar means pull in Portuguese. Eh a idade… :/
Hi Marina – part of my problem is speaking to other people who don’t speak English very well. I kind of unconsciously ‘dumb-down’ my way of speaking, I guess because I think it will be easier to understand. My friends laugh at me when I go back to England! ;)
It’s been 12 years already. How are you now? Still in Brazil?
Hi Carlos! I’m still in Brazil, and I’d like to think my Portuguese has improved (currently in a relationship with someone who doesn’t speak a word of English – something I would heartily recommend for anyone trying to kick-start their language learning! ;)
I am now an official passport-holding Brazilian (though I have not bothered to learn the national anthem – bad fake Brazilian Tom!). The ‘Eat Rio’ food tours have gone from strength to strength. And now I’m a dad (to twins!) so sadly don’t have so much time for writing blog posts… But maybe one day I’ll get back to updating the blog.